co-existing CVS and Subversion

[Matthias Odisio]

Hi,

I have a directory that is managed both by CVS (with a remote server) and
by Subversion (with a local repository). Yes, it's not ideal at all, but
that's the setup.

The CVS menu of BBedit is restricted to only Update, Commit, Show status,
Export project and Show log, as if BBedit were thniking the files are not
managed by CVS. If I try to update, I'm asked for a CVSROOT, whereas the
CVS/Root file is pointing to the remote server.

What is going wrong?

Nota Bene:
The Subversion menu of BBedit is working fine.
When I use the command line clients (cvs, svn), everything behaves
correctly.

Matthias

[Gabor Maghera]

Did you happen to change your OS username or user directory for the
system you are working on? I had the same issue and it turned out
that BBEdit had an incorrect path in one of the preferences.

Cheers,
Gabor

Post by Matthias Odisio
Hi,
I have a directory that is managed both by CVS (with a remote server) and
by Subversion (with a local repository). Yes, it's not ideal at all, but
that's the setup.
The CVS menu of BBedit is restricted to only Update, Commit, Show status,
Export project and Show log, as if BBedit were thniking the files are not
managed by CVS. If I try to update, I'm asked for a CVSROOT, whereas the
CVS/Root file is pointing to the remote server.
What is going wrong?
The Subversion menu of BBedit is working fine.
When I use the command line clients (cvs, svn), everything behaves
correctly.
Matthias
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[Charles Albrecht]

Matthias,

Keep in mind that BBEdit and the shell use different environment
variables, so if you need $CVSROOT or $CVS_RSH, you may need to set
them in the environment.plist. I haven't tried setting bbedit's scm
parameters, because I've never quite understood how they're supposed
to work.

Still, it seems that CVS/Root should have the CVSROOT value after the
initial checkout.

-Charles

Post by Gabor Maghera
Did you happen to change your OS username or user directory for the
system you are working on? I had the same issue and it turned out
that BBEdit had an incorrect path in one of the preferences.
Cheers,
Gabor

Post by Matthias Odisio
Hi,
I have a directory that is managed both by CVS (with a remote
server) and
by Subversion (with a local repository). Yes, it's not ideal at all, but
that's the setup.
The CVS menu of BBedit is restricted to only Update, Commit, Show status,
Export project and Show log, as if BBedit were thniking the files are not
managed by CVS. If I try to update, I'm asked for a CVSROOT,
whereas the
CVS/Root file is pointing to the remote server.
What is going wrong?
The Subversion menu of BBedit is working fine.
When I use the command line clients (cvs, svn), everything behaves
correctly.
Matthias

[Matthias Odisio]

Post by Gabor Maghera
Did you happen to change your OS username or user directory for the
system you are working on? I had the same issue and it turned out
that BBEdit had an incorrect path in one of the preferences.
Cheers,
Gabor

No, I've not made such changes. I've looked in my BBedit preferences and
they looked fine.

Matthias

Post by Gabor Maghera

Post by Matthias Odisio
Hi,
I have a directory that is managed both by CVS (with a remote server) and
by Subversion (with a local repository). Yes, it's not ideal at all, but
that's the setup.
The CVS menu of BBedit is restricted to only Update, Commit, Show status,
Export project and Show log, as if BBedit were thniking the files are not
managed by CVS. If I try to update, I'm asked for a CVSROOT, whereas the
CVS/Root file is pointing to the remote server.
What is going wrong?
The Subversion menu of BBedit is working fine.
When I use the command line clients (cvs, svn), everything behaves
correctly.
Matthias

[Jim Correia]

Post by Matthias Odisio
I have a directory that is managed both by CVS (with a remote
server) and by Subversion (with a local repository). Yes, it's not
ideal at all, but that's the setup.
The CVS menu of BBedit is restricted to only Update, Commit, Show
status, Export project and Show log, as if BBedit were thniking the
files are not managed by CVS. If I try to update, I'm asked for a
CVSROOT, whereas the CVS/Root file is pointing to the remote server.
What is going wrong?

As currently structured, BBEdit assumes that a given directory will
only be used with on SCM system.

I've logged a feature request so I can relax this restriction/
assumption in the future.

Jim

[Timothy Stone]

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Post by Jim Correia

Post by Matthias Odisio
I have a directory that is managed both by CVS (with a remote
server) and by Subversion (with a local repository). Yes, it's not
ideal at all, but that's the setup.
The CVS menu of BBedit is restricted to only Update, Commit, Show
status, Export project and Show log, as if BBedit were thniking the
files are not managed by CVS. If I try to update, I'm asked for a
CVSROOT, whereas the CVS/Root file is pointing to the remote server.
What is going wrong?

As currently structured, BBEdit assumes that a given directory will
only be used with on SCM system.
I've logged a feature request so I can relax this restriction/
assumption in the future.

I'm not sure, if I was BB, that I would even consider this... reason:
the setup described above, and in the original post, is "not ideal at
all," but not at all what CVS or SVN, or PVCS, or /insert SCM here/
expects. Nor, is it any documented, or recommended project management
pattern.

To Matthias, I would ask, "Why are you being constrained to one
directory?" What is preventing you from have a "work" directory, under
which there is a "svn/project_name" and "cvs/project_name" directory?
It is an automated build process? What sort of project would want you
to use two different SCM repositories.

This is something I do on a daily basis, and if there is something
that I can assist with, I only need to know more about what you are
doing to provide some direction.

Regards, HTH,
Tim


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[Charles Albrecht]

Post by Timothy Stone
I'm not sure, if I was BB, that I would even consider this...
reason: the setup described above, and in the original post, is
"not ideal at all," but not at all what CVS or SVN, or PVCS, or /
insert SCM here/ expects. Nor, is it any documented, or recommended
project management pattern.
To Matthias, I would ask, "Why are you being constrained to one
directory?" What is preventing you from have a "work" directory,
under which there is a "svn/project_name" and "cvs/project_name"
directory? It is an automated build process? What sort of project
would want you to use two different SCM repositories.
This is something I do on a daily basis, and if there is something
that I can assist with, I only need to know more about what you are
doing to provide some direction.

The usage pattern for this is the private versioning pattern (ref
http://www.scmpatterns.com/book/pattern-summary.html) in which you
essentially version all of your local "off-code-line" work
independently from the source codeline. This sounds like what
Matthias is looking to implement. It allows, essentially micro-
versioning of your work in progress with a local repository that.
Other approaches for this involve creating honest-to-god branches in
the host source control system and submitting all your changes there,
but multiple branches can be even more problematic from a keeping-up-
to-date-with-the-donor-branch than the orthogonal version control
approach, especially if your systems maintain limited branch/merge
history.

git is strangely popular for this pattern, because of the way it
handles metadata and because basically this is how it is views the
world. Perforce's free 2-user/5-workspace can also be used here. It
also handles metadata without scattering a bunch of directories
through your source tree. (insert ob comment about remembering to
override p4's pathological desire to lock down the whole damn source
tree here.)

Overall, the best solution is a codeline policy that allows frequent
submits of changes, but in some cases moving to such a policy may be
unwise or politically challenging. Having an offline scm system aids
in that effort.

However, as an SCM manager, I would not support a plurality of
offline systems - unless we were also, to some degree documenting
preferred deployment and usage - and I can understand where BBEdit
would make assumptions about the number of version control systems
asserting some claim over the history of a given file.

-Charles Albrecht
***@pobox.com

[Timothy Stone]

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Post by Timothy Stone
I'm not sure, if I was BB, that I would even consider this...
reason: the setup described above, and in the original post, is
"not ideal at all," but not at all what CVS or SVN, or PVCS, or /
insert SCM here/ expects. Nor, is it any documented, or recommended
project management pattern.
To Matthias, I would ask, "Why are you being constrained to one
directory?" What is preventing you from have a "work" directory,
under which there is a "svn/project_name" and "cvs/project_name"
directory? It is an automated build process? What sort of project
would want you to use two different SCM repositories.
This is something I do on a daily basis, and if there is something
that I can assist with, I only need to know more about what you are
doing to provide some direction.

The usage pattern for this is the private versioning pattern (ref http://www.scmpatterns.com/book/pattern-summary.html)
in which you essentially version all of your local "off-code-line"
work independently from the source codeline. This sounds like what
Matthias is looking to implement.

I'm not sure that Matthias is describing a "pattern," but a problem.
He is describe a single folder with multiple SCM code branches...

work/
.svn <----- meta-data files for each SCM
CVS <----- CVS may be seeing some of these as "new" or "added"
project1-file
project1-dir
.svn
...
project2-file
project2-dir
CVS
...

Matthias is possibly having some conflict in the each SCM system meta-
data. And SVN is doing a better job than CVS in filtering out the
other's meta-data files and directories.

I'm not sure the Private Version Pattern applies here. (I'm hoping we
are not getting to derailed from Matthias's problem.) Matthias would
be better helped if he "checked out" his code to specific directories
under "work"

work/
project1
.svn <----- meta-data
project1-file
project1-dir
.svn
...
project2
CVS <----- meta-data
project2-file
project2-dir
CVS
...
...

This is why I said that BB would not be served by attempting to manage
this in the BBEdit code. This is a SCM user experience, or SCM system,
issue; not a BB should fix BBEdit problem.

HTH,
Tim
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[Matthias Odisio]

Thanks a lot for your sounded responses!

Post by Charles Albrecht

Post by Charles Albrecht

Post by Timothy Stone
I'm not sure, if I was BB, that I would even consider this...
reason: the setup described above, and in the original post, is
"not ideal at all," but not at all what CVS or SVN, or PVCS, or /
insert SCM here/ expects. Nor, is it any documented, or recommended
project management pattern.
To Matthias, I would ask, "Why are you being constrained to one
directory?" What is preventing you from have a "work" directory,
under which there is a "svn/project_name" and "cvs/project_name"
directory? It is an automated build process? What sort of project
would want you to use two different SCM repositories.
This is something I do on a daily basis, and if there is something
that I can assist with, I only need to know more about what you are
doing to provide some direction.

The usage pattern for this is the private versioning pattern (ref

http://www.scmpatterns.com/book/pattern-summary.html)

Post by Charles Albrecht
in which you essentially version all of your local "off-code-line"
work independently from the source codeline. This sounds like what
Matthias is looking to implement.

Yes, this is what I'm trying to do.

Post by Charles Albrecht
I'm not sure that Matthias is describing a "pattern," but a problem.
He is describe a single folder with multiple SCM code branches...
work/
.svn <----- meta-data files for each SCM
CVS <----- CVS may be seeing some of these as "new" or "added"
project1-file
project1-dir
.svn
...
project2-file
project2-dir
CVS
...
Matthias is possibly having some conflict in the each SCM system meta-
data. And SVN is doing a better job than CVS in filtering out the
other's meta-data files and directories.

So far so good, but I won't be surprised if some conflicts can occur in
theory between any set of versioning systems.

Post by Charles Albrecht
I'm not sure the Private Version Pattern applies here. (I'm hoping we
are not getting to derailed from Matthias's problem.) Matthias would
be better helped if he "checked out" his code to specific directories
under "work"
work/
project1
.svn <----- meta-data
project1-file
project1-dir
.svn
...
project2
CVS <----- meta-data
project2-file
project2-dir
CVS
...
...

I have only one project (project1==project2 in your diagram). By having
only one source directory, I'm hoping to simplify one my end diff, update,
status, etc. SCM operations.

Matthias

Post by Charles Albrecht
This is why I said that BB would not be served by attempting to manage
this in the BBEdit code. This is a SCM user experience, or SCM system,
issue; not a BB should fix BBEdit problem.
HTH,
Tim