Problems with SFTP/FTP

[Carole Mah]

Recently I started using Interarchy, because unlike the SFTP Browser,
it doesn't "time out" and make me re-connect every five minutes.

However, I've noticed two attendent problems:

1.) If the only way a document has been opened in BBEdit is via a
right-click "Edit with BBEdit" in Interarchy, then the document never
appears on the "Open Recent" menu in BBEdit.

2.) Usually if I want to make a new File Group so as to bookmark and
open a whole bunch of related documents on launch the next time, I
make sure to drag and drop all the open documents in the Documents
Drawer over into a new File Group, and then when I re-launch BBEdit
the next day, I launch via the saved File Group and select all the
documents, then select "Open". However, this does not work if the
documents in the Documents Drawer were previously opened from inside
Interarchy (via the same right-click "Edit with BBEdit").

I suppose these are both symptoms of the same problem. Does anyone
have any suggestions? Am I missing something obvious?

Thanks!

-Carole

[Chris Pepper]

Post by Carole Mah
Recently I started using Interarchy, because unlike the SFTP Browser,
it doesn't "time out" and make me re-connect every five minutes.
1.) If the only way a document has been opened in BBEdit is via a
right-click "Edit with BBEdit" in Interarchy, then the document never
appears on the "Open Recent" menu in BBEdit.

There's a secret preference to record temp files in Open
Recent, and another to set the (S)FTP timeout. Check Secret
Preferences in BBEdit's Help menu.


Chris
--
Chris Pepper: <http://www.reppep.com/~pepper/>
<http://www.reppep.com/weblog/pepper/>
Rockefeller University: <http://www.rockefeller.edu/>

[Carole Mah]

Post by Chris Pepper
There's a secret preference to record temp files in Open
Recent, and another to set the (S)FTP timeout. Check Secret
Preferences in BBEdit's Help menu.

Thank you so much! I found the one for SFTP timeout, but I can't seem
to find the one for the Open Recent ... It isn't in the Secret
Preferences. At least, a search for the string "Open Recent" or even
just "Recent" in the Secret Preferences help screen returns no
results.

Thanks again,

Carole

[Bruce Van Allen]

Post by Carole Mah

Post by Chris Pepper
There's a secret preference to record temp files in Open
Recent, and another to set the (S)FTP timeout. Check Secret
Preferences in BBEdit's Help menu.

Thank you so much! I found the one for SFTP timeout, but I can't seem
to find the one for the Open Recent ... It isn't in the Secret
Preferences. At least, a search for the string "Open Recent" or even
just "Recent" in the Secret Preferences help screen returns no
results.

Here it is:
##
Add Temporary Files to the Open Recent Menu
Ordinarily, BBEdit will not add files to the Open Recent menu if they
are located in the system temporary directories (/tmp or /private/tmp).
However, if you routinely work with such files and want them to appear
on the Open Recent menu, you may issue the following Terminal command.

defaults write com.barebones.bbedit RememberRecentTempFiles -bool true

If you have applied this change, but no longer want to have such files
added to the Open Recent menu, issue the following command in the
Terminal.

defaults write com.barebones.bbedit RememberRecentTempFiles -bool false
##

1;

- Bruce

__bruce__van_allen__santa_cruz__ca__

[Carole Mah]

Bruce,

Not to be the stupidest person on the block, but not only can I not
find this paragraph in the "Secret Preferences" help section, but when
I tried to run the command you gave me, it didn't work. I even
restarted BBEdit.

What version of BBEdit are you using? I am using 8.5.1.

Thanks once more,

Carole

Post by Bruce Van Allen

Post by Carole Mah

Post by Chris Pepper
There's a secret preference to record temp files in Open
Recent, and another to set the (S)FTP timeout. Check Secret
Preferences in BBEdit's Help menu.

Thank you so much! I found the one for SFTP timeout, but I can't seem
to find the one for the Open Recent ... It isn't in the Secret
Preferences. At least, a search for the string "Open Recent" or even
just "Recent" in the Secret Preferences help screen returns no
results.

##
Add Temporary Files to the Open Recent Menu
Ordinarily, BBEdit will not add files to the Open Recent menu if they
are located in the system temporary directories (/tmp or /private/tmp).
However, if you routinely work with such files and want them to appear
on the Open Recent menu, you may issue the following Terminal command.
defaults write com.barebones.bbedit RememberRecentTempFiles -bool true
If you have applied this change, but no longer want to have such files
added to the Open Recent menu, issue the following command in the
Terminal.
defaults write com.barebones.bbedit RememberRecentTempFiles -bool false
##
1;
- Bruce
__bruce__van_allen__santa_cruz__ca__
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[Kerri Hicks]

Post by Carole Mah
Recently I started using Interarchy, because unlike the SFTP Browser,
it doesn't "time out" and make me re-connect every five minutes.

The SFTP browser, in my experience, doesn't time out unless the
server tells it to. I've opened a connection to a server, worked for
a bit, walked away for hours, come back, and the connection is still
alive. So if BBEdit is forced to reconnect every five minutes, then
anything else that connects to your server probably is too -- it
might just be that you're noticing with BBEdit, while perhaps
Interarchy does it silently.

Post by Carole Mah
1.) If the only way a document has been opened in BBEdit is via a
right-click "Edit with BBEdit" in Interarchy, then the document never
appears on the "Open Recent" menu in BBEdit.

And you probably don't want it to. Even if you turn on the secret
preference to show temp files in the Open Recent menu, it's going
to...well, it's going to do exactly that, open the temp files. When
you open a file in BBEdit from Interarchy, it creates a temporary
version of that file on your local drive, and so the item in the Open
Recent menu would point to the temp file on your hard drive, not the
original on your remote server.

Post by Carole Mah
2.) Usually if I want to make a new File Group so as to bookmark and
open a whole bunch of related documents on launch the next time, I
make sure to drag and drop all the open documents in the Documents
Drawer over into a new File Group, and then when I re-launch BBEdit
the next day, I launch via the saved File Group and select all the
documents, then select "Open". However, this does not work if the
documents in the Documents Drawer were previously opened from inside
Interarchy (via the same right-click "Edit with BBEdit").
I suppose these are both symptoms of the same problem.

Yes, they are. Same reason. When you drag files from the Drawer to a
new File Group, it's dragging pointers to the temp files, not the
remote files.

When you use BBEdit's S/FTP, it manages all this for you, but when
you use an external client, it can't.

The way around this is to create your file group by opening all the
files with BBEdit's S/FTP, and dragging them into the group. Then
saving works the same way on your end as it would have with
Interarchy -- just command-S, and it saves your file to the remote
server.

Best,
Kerri

[Carole Mah]

Post by Kerri Hicks
The SFTP browser, in my experience, doesn't time out unless the
server tells it to. I've opened a connection to a server, worked for
a bit, walked away for hours, come back, and the connection is still
alive. So if BBEdit is forced to reconnect every five minutes, then
anything else that connects to your server probably is too -- it
might just be that you're noticing with BBEdit, while perhaps
Interarchy does it silently.

Actually, it isn't just the server -- after I ran the 'secret' timeout
increase command that I found documented in the "Secret Preferences"
help file, it was no longer forcing me to reconnect so frequently any
more.

Post by Kerri Hicks
And you probably don't want it to. Even if you turn on the secret
preference to show temp files in the Open Recent menu, it's going
to...well, it's going to do exactly that, open the temp files. When
you open a file in BBEdit from Interarchy, it creates a temporary
version of that file on your local drive, and so the item in the Open
Recent menu would point to the temp file on your hard drive, not the
original on your remote server.

Why isn't it able to point to the original on the remote server? I
just don't understand that. All I want is for it to point to that (not
to the temp file on my hard drive).

Post by Kerri Hicks
The way around this is to create your file group by opening all the
files with BBEdit's S/FTP, and dragging them into the group. Then
saving works the same way on your end as it would have with
Interarchy -- just command-S, and it saves your file to the remote
server.

Yes, that is what I had been doing prior to switching to Interarchy. I
suppose I will have to go back to doing it that way. Thanks, though.
:-)

- Carole

[Jason Davies]

Post by Carole Mah

Post by Kerri Hicks
The way around this is to create your file group by opening all the
files with BBEdit's S/FTP, and dragging them into the group. Then
saving works the same way on your end as it would have with Interarchy
-- just command-S, and it saves your file to the remote server.

Yes, that is what I had been doing prior to switching to Interarchy. I
suppose I will have to go back to doing it that way. Thanks, though.

you could always create an ftp disk with Interarchy - that's
what I do. when you're happy with the changes, you synchronise
and it all gets uploaded. Then BBEdit works with 'proper' local
versions and all this goes away... IIRC Interarchy scripts nice,
so you could have it sync the disk every five minutes (or even
write a menuscript associated with particular files to do so, if
there's not too many). Or some variation.

HTH.

[Chris Pepper]

Post by Carole Mah

Post by Kerri Hicks
The SFTP browser, in my experience, doesn't time out unless the
server tells it to. I've opened a connection to a server, worked for
a bit, walked away for hours, come back, and the connection is still
alive. So if BBEdit is forced to reconnect every five minutes, then
anything else that connects to your server probably is too -- it
might just be that you're noticing with BBEdit, while perhaps
Interarchy does it silently.

Actually, it isn't just the server -- after I ran the 'secret' timeout
increase command that I found documented in the "Secret Preferences"
help file, it was no longer forcing me to reconnect so frequently any
more.

Carole,

This is BBEdit avoiding server-side timeouts by generating
activity. Apparently BBEdit doesn't proactively close the connection
due to a timeout BBEdit keeps track of, per previous poster.

Post by Carole Mah

Post by Kerri Hicks
And you probably don't want it to. Even if you turn on the secret
preference to show temp files in the Open Recent menu, it's going
to...well, it's going to do exactly that, open the temp files. When
you open a file in BBEdit from Interarchy, it creates a temporary
version of that file on your local drive, and so the item in the Open
Recent menu would point to the temp file on your hard drive, not the
original on your remote server.

Why isn't it able to point to the original on the remote server? I
just don't understand that. All I want is for it to point to that (not
to the temp file on my hard drive).

Because BBEdit edits files. To edit a file on a remote
server, it has to download the file, edit the local copy, and upload
the revised file. Aliases point to files, like the local copy. Mac OS
X aliases don't know anything about (S)FTP, so you can't have an
alias (in a BBEdit menu or anywhere else) to a remote file. BBEdit's
behind-the-scenes magic can hide most of this complexity for you, but
its Interarchy integration is excellent but not quite as seamless.


Note: I can't find the temporary recent items default either
-- perhaps I misremembered, or perhaps there's some confusion between
8.5 & 8.5.1 versions of the docs? Bare Bones may know, but I don't
have an explanation.


Chris
--
Chris Pepper: <http://www.reppep.com/~pepper/>
<http://www.reppep.com/weblog/pepper/>
Rockefeller University: <http://www.rockefeller.edu/>

[Google Kreme]

Post by Carole Mah

When
you open a file in BBEdit from Interarchy, it [Interarchy] creates
a temporary
version of that file on your local drive, and so the item in the Open
Recent menu would point to the temp file on your hard drive, not the
original on your remote server.

Why isn't it able to point to the original on the remote server?

Because BBEdit doesn't know about the file on the remote server, it
only knows about the copy the Interarchy created and told BBEdit to
open.
--
I want a refund, I want a light, I want a reason for all this night
after night after night after night

[Bob Williams]

Post by Kerri Hicks
Yes, they are. Same reason. When you drag files from the Drawer to
a new File Group, it's dragging pointers to the temp files, not the
remote files.
When you use BBEdit's S/FTP, it manages all this for you, but when
you use an external client, it can't.

There is room for improvement here, though. When you open a file via
an external client, the URL is sent to BBEdit, which is why BBEdit
can show you the URL rather than the temp file's path. From here, if
you add the file to a file group or to the recent menu, BBEdit could
make note of the URL and later (in another session) use its built-in
SFTP functionality to save the file again on the server. If the
server login credentials are in the keychain, then it wouldn't even
need to prompt for them; it would just work.

This would allow one to use an external client for functionality
that's beyond the scope of what BBEdit provides and yet, once the
working files are nailed down, let BBEdit take care of the simple
save operation on its own when a file is reopened directly in BBEdit
in a later session.

And, yes, this will be going to ***@....


Regards,
Bob